A new never been asked on this forum tax ?

[CHOPTALK]

Let me start off by saying that I pay my taxes on sportsbetting winnings. Every penny. I dont keep an individual every play tally like FISHHEAD suggest but I do use a very simple money minus money out to determine what I owe.

My question is this. If I make a $5000 withdrawl from a sportsbook into Neteller and then almost instantly send it to another sportsbook, am I obligated to pay taxes on that $5000 even though im not using that money for personal reasons?

I have always used the rule if it ends up in my bank account I pay taxes. Well this money will not be going in my bank account. Technically there is a chance I could lose every penny of this money before it ever gets in my hands.

I want to do the right thing but this sportsbook I am dealing with does not do book to book transfers with the book that I want the money to be sent to so I have to use Neteller.

 

[CoachLT]

Let me start off by saying that I pay my taxes on sportsbetting winnings. Every penny. I dont keep an individual every play tally like FISHHEAD suggest but I do use a very simple money minus money out to determine what I owe.

My question is this. If I make a $5000 withdrawl from a sportsbook into Neteller and then almost instantly send it to another sportsbook, am I obligated to pay taxes on that $5000 even though im not using that money for personal reasons?

I have always used the rule if it ends up in my bank account I pay taxes. Well this money will not be going in my bank account. Technically there is a chance I could lose every penny of this money before it ever gets in my hands.

I want to do the right thing but this sportsbook I am dealing with does not do book to book transfers with the book that I want the money to be sent to so I have to use Neteller.

A very, very good question. I was wondering the exact same thing. :money8: LT

 

[Journeyman]

I don't see how it could count as end of year or quarter winnings if it's still 'in play'...that is a very good question..

 

[Fishhead]

Has nothing to do with what you report.......AS DOES NOT WHAT HITS ONES BANK ACCOUNT EITHER(but the bank account is MUCH more important and needs to be made accountable for in someway).

What you report, is what you WIN...........in the perfect and honest world.

In the perfect and honest world of taxes, you report all your WINS on LINE 21 and deduct all of ones losses on Schedule A.

A simple EXAMPLE.........

SEND 2,000 to Neteller........then to sportsbook A.

Bet 5 games for 110 to win 100 and go 5-0 so now balance is 2,500........withdraw to Neteller and send the 2500 to sportsbook B.

At sportsbook B say one places one wager for 300 to win 300 and losses it and then one withdraws the remaining 2200 back to Neteller and from there decides to EFT only 1100 back of the remaining 2200 to ones bank account.

Here is your report for the IRS in the above scenario.........

One had $500 in TOTAL WINNING BETS.........this goes on LINE 21 of ones 1040 as GAMBLING WINNINGS.

Then on Schedule A, one deducts the 300 in gambling losses, resulting in one paying taxes on the $200 profit.

One can NEVER deduct MORE than their winnings.........meaning if you were to win say 1,000 and lose 1,200.........only 1,000 can be deducted on Schedule A.

 

[Journeyman]

I still wonder how you prove this, you win 5000 at a sportsbook have a Neteller sent directly to your bank, you go to Atlantic City and lose 5000 in quarter slots, you are dead even.

How do you prove this, if you had to?

Call me crazy but I don't think a certain govt agency would buy this very realiatic scenario...and anyone who would report that would be opening a serious can of worms.

 

[Fishhead]

I still wonder how you prove this, you win 5000 at a sportsbook have a Neteller sent directly to your bank, you go to Atlantic City and lose 5000 in quarter slots, you are dead even.

How do you prove this, if you had to?

Call me crazy but I don't think a certain govt agency would buy this very realiatic scenario...and anyone who would report that would be opening a serious can of worms.

Simple, one keeps a detailed diary of all their gambling ventures.

This is a VERY realistic scenario for MANY gamblers........especially at the relatively low figures you are mentioning.

 

[bilbal]

I still wonder how you prove this, you win 5000 at a sportsbook have a Neteller sent directly to your bank, you go to Atlantic City and lose 5000 in quarter slots, you are dead even.

How do you prove this, if you had to?

Call me crazy but I don't think a certain govt agency would buy this very realiatic scenario...and anyone who would report that would be opening a serious can of worms.

At the end of the year you would have to claim $5,000 in gambling winnings on your income and pay taxes on that, but you also claim $5,000 in gambling losses on your deductions as well. As for records, you'll won't need actual slot records, but proof you were there (hotel receipts, etc)

 

[Journeyman]

Simple, one keeps a detailed diary of all their gambling ventures.

This is a VERY realistic scenario for MANY gamblers........especially at the relatively low figures you are mentioning.

I know it's a realistic scenario, do you think they would believe it?

 

[Journeyman]

At the end of the year you would have to claim $5,000 in gambling winnings on your income and pay taxes on that, but you also claim $5,000 in gambling losses on your deductions as well. As for records, you'll won't need actual slot records, but proof you were there (hotel receipts, etc)

How do you prove you drove to a casino 15 mins away, stopped in and dropped 5 dimes in a day of slots? Many people do not stay overnight , and would have no record.

 

[bilbal]

How do you prove you drove to a casino 15 mins away, stopped in and dropped 5 dimes in a day of slots? Many people do not stay overnight , and would have no record.

a receipt from the casino garage, or the bar if you got drink, a restaurant, a shop, anything that proves you were in the casino at the time you are claiming losses.

 

[Fishhead]

Simple, one keeps a detailed diary of all their gambling ventures.

This is a VERY realistic scenario for MANY gamblers........especially at the relatively low figures you are mentioning.

Have had a couple close friends audited that have reported over ONE MILLION dollars in both winnings and deductions and the IRS fully supported their detailed gambling records.

NOW HAVING SAID THAT, EVERYBODY HERE AT TheRX needs a QUALIFIED PERSONAL certified CPA/TAX ACCOUNTANT and SHOULD NEVER SOLELY take the advice of any one poster here!!!!...............this is the route 100% of the posters here should be doing(getting a personal tax accountant) if they are concerned with their gambling taxes.

 

[Fishhead]

How do you prove you drove to a casino 15 mins away, stopped in and dropped 5 dimes in a day of slots? Many people do not stay overnight , and would have no record.

NO receipts are needed of ANY kind..............but everyone is helpful if one does decide to keep them.

A DETAILED DIARY is ALL the IRS requires...........it is very simply stated this way in the tax code.

Now detailed is ..........DATE, ACTIVITY, LOCATION, AMOUNT WON OR LOST...........these are the BIG FOUR.

One can then add receipts, machine numbers, etc., etc. for added verification.

But DATE, ACTIVITY, LOCATION, and AMOUNT WON or LOST are the BIG FOUR and these four things should be kept in a well ordered and neat fashion.

 

[Fishhead]

On that note, as per new rules at TheRX, this will be moved to the FINANCIAL FORUM for further discussion.

Thanks
fish

 

[CoachLT]

On that note, as per new rules at TheRX, this will be moved to the FINANCIAL FORUM for further discussion.

Thanks
fish

Does anyone ever go to the Financial Forum? I have NEVER been there. This is to important to be sent to a forum no one ever goes to. OK, back to the main topic. If any "winnings" are still in cyberspace or Neteller and you have NEVER had possession of them,(bank acct) how can they be declared "winnings"? LT

 

[Fishhead]

Does anyone ever go to the Financial Forum? I have NEVER been there. This is to important to be sent to a forum no one ever goes to. OK, back to the main topic. If any "winnings" are still in cyberspace or Neteller and you have NEVER had possession of them,(bank acct) how can they be declared "winnings"? LT

On the rule....managements decision. Personally, to me it is a very tough call to make, as I can certainly see your argument..........as well as managements.

Now on to the topic at hand, understand what you are saying............as mentioned, I stated in a PERFECT and HONEST world that is how it should probably be done.

Lets say one wins 20,000 in wagers and losses 19,000 at sportsbook A and then takes the 1,000 profit from sportsbook and has it sent to NT and then on to the players bank account...............the player WON 1,000 so essentially one could JUST report 1,000 winnings on their taxes(if they choose to go this route) and be done with it or do as I suggested and report 20,000 in winnings and deduct 19,000 in losses OR just blow the whole thing off and not report ANYTHING....................believe that is the three scenarios we are looking at here, right?

As mentioned, the best way to go about all of this is to take advice from as many GAMBLERS in the know on this subject here or elsewhere, AND THEN TAKE ALL THAT INFO and present it to a QUALIFIED AND RESPECTED TAX ATTORNEY/ACCOUNTANT and go from there...............sure this is your approach LT, being the smart guy you are .

 

[bilbal]

the financial forum?

Alltel

that's all I'm sayin'

 

[Fishhead]

the financial forum?

Alltel

that's all I'm sayin'

My cellphone of choice!

 

[Dubpoet]

Well, one stupid question for some considering paying taxes on winning. It you don't collect it do you have to pay. Say I go from 10,000 to 40,000 at pinny this summer. And don't collect this year. ??

 

[bilbal]

Well, one stupid question for some considering paying taxes on winning. It you don't collect it do you have to pay. Say I go from 10,000 to 40,000 at pinny this summer. And don't collect this year. ??

It doesn't matter when you withdraw, it's considered income when the book credits your account with each winning bet. So if you had $100,000 in wins and $70,000 in losses to get your account to increase $30,000, you pay income tax on that $100,000 in winning bets and you deduct your $70,000 in losses on your itemized.

 

[Fishhead]

It doesn't matter when you withdraw, it's considered income when the book credits your account with each winning bet. So if you had $100,000 in wins and $70,000 in losses to get your account to increase $30,000, you pay income tax on that $100,000 in winning bets and you deduct your $70,000 in losses on your itemized.

Precisely 100% correct....in the perfect, correct and honest world!!

ABSOLUTELY! correct BILbal.